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tv   CNN Tonight With Don Lemon  CNN  September 23, 2015 7:00pm-8:01pm PDT

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priests, prifryars, monks. we'll see you later on tonight. right now "cnn tonight" with don lemon. >> and pope francis hours after his first mass on u.s. soil. this is don lemon. the pope heads to new york tomorrow afternoon. on friday he's going to go downtown and visit ground zero. we'll talk to the police commissioner about how the city will protect a pontiff determined to be a man of the people. listen to donald trump tonight. >> who would you rather have negotiating, trump or those
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clowns that are negotiating right now? >> plus trump doubling down on his attacks on hillary clinton. >> she was the original birther. she was the one that started that whole thing. hillary is a birther. by the way, don't switch your votes to hillary, please. >> tonight i'll tell what you hillary clinton said to me when i asked her about those accusations. that's all a little bit later on. let's begin with a very busy day on the campaign trail. the latest gop poll, this one from fox news, it has donald trump on top at 26%, followed by ben carson at 18%, carly fiorina and marco rubio neck and neck, 9%. meanwhile, donald trump touted another poll on the campaign trail today. here it is. >> interestingly a poll came out and this is the second one i had, the shock poll. this just came out, trump receives 25% of the black vote
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in general election. [ laughter ] >> let me see that. cnn sara murray live for us now. trump is attacking their poll coverage but it good news for him, isn't it? >> reporter: it is good news for him. one thing we know is he reads everything and watches everything. if there is somebody criticizing him, he takes that very personally. that's what we're seeing now with the latest feud in fox. we've seen that with plenty of other media outlets. he watches everything, don. >> we all know he is obsessed with polling, with the polls. he brings them up at every single stop. more than once today he touted support about african-americans. what is the reality there, sarah? >> i think the reality is not as rosie as donald trump would lead
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to you believe. when you look at our cnn-orc poll, it shows only 13% of non-white voters have a favorable impression of donald trump compared to 74% of non-white voters who have an unfavorable impression. he likes to pick very specific polls and tout those. you see from our numbers it just doesn't hold up. >> sarah, supporters love that he is unscripted but he's made some of his points so often, does it sound like a stump speech to you? >> i do think it's kind of like seeing chris christie for the first time, right? you see him and he's very blunt and he says -- he's very plain spoken. donald trump is like that, too, but he certainly recycles a lot of the same lines. the one thingly say did donald trump and he said this on the stump is he knows his speeches
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get a lot of attention so he tries to tweak them a little bit so they change slightly day to day. i think we saw that today when he launched a new attack against donald trump. marco rubio questioned donald trump whether he's ready to be commander in chief. when you question donald trump, he hits back hard. he did that calling rubio a lightweight against various attacks he lunched against marco rubio today. >> i want to bring in mr. frank rich, writer at large for "new >> you saw the poll. what do you think of that? >> you have more than 50% of the republican party that doesn't
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want the real politicians. also, i think the story we just can't ignore is really the collapse is jeb bush. he's never been strong and now he's behind ted cruz. granted it's just one poll but everyone had been looking to him to be the establishment american to head off the madness of donald trump and he's not even registering. >> my "new york magazine" arrived at my door with donald trump wearing a wig. it's called "donald trump is saving our democracy." explain what you mean by that. >> what i mean is i don't think there's a chance that donald trump is going to become president. there is some chance he could be the republican nominee but his sort of bigotry, his bullying, his absurdity is kind of exposing the absurdity of the whole process. he's making the republicans make bad, he's even making hillary clinton look bad.
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he's decisive. hillary clinton couldn't pick her favorite ice cream flavor at an ice cream stand in new hampshire. >> talking about that wrecking ball. you said "far from being a threat to democracy or freak show unworthy of coverage, it matters because it's taking a much-needed wrecking ball to some of what has made our sterile politics and dysfunctional government as bankrupt as donald trump's atlantic city casinos." is that a backhanded compliment? >> he doesn't have a huge group of consultants. he is blow dried but his speech isn't blow dried. he's not using the system of everything being scripted, politically correct. as someone said, he's like the
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charlie sheen of politics. >> his critics are saying he's not a real republican. >> the fact is that some of his most controversial views like repealing birth right citizenship are supported by many republicans, if not most republicans. the birther thing, which is horrible, he didn't invent it. that's been going on in the republican party for years before he even started talking about it. so for people to say he's not a real republican, he has a lot of views of the republican base. he just says them out loud instead of encoding them and making this many sound nice. >> and he doesn't care. it's the way he says it. >> he's uses the dreaded term anchor babies and then jeb bush is defending anchor babies. >> let listen to donald trump on
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the campaign trail today. >> jeb bush was the governor and marco will never run because of respect for his mentor. and i figured the same thing because i'm a very loyal person. i wouldn't have done it ever. i think it's very disloyal. so jeb bush was his mentor. i'm saying he's not going to run. he announced he's not going to run because i'm ambitious, i have better hair than he does. and hillary who has become so shrill, you know the world shrill? you look at carly, her election, an election that should have been won against barbara boxer, she ended up losing in a landslide once it was revealed how badly she did with hewlett packard. >> we don't even get our prisoners back. we have four prisoners over there and they don't even ask them. they said we can't do that because we don't want to complicate the deal. think of that. you'd walk in -- by the way, who would you rather have
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negotiating, trump or those clowns that are negotiating right now, okay? then i get these lightweights like rubio. he gets up and says, well, dr donald trump didn't talk about foreign policy. romney should have won the last election to him. something happened to him, he choked. like a golfer on the 18th hole, he can't sink the putt, ah, ah, ah. >> he spends a lot of time insulting people and yet it doesn't hurt him in the polls. in fact it, helps him. >> people say he's being honest, even if he's bullying, even if it's tasteless. they're sick of people sounding like pollsters. >> one person benefiting is dr. ben carson, not necessarily he wouldn't support a muslim as president of the united states. he said after that comment money is pouring in.
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why is he benefiting from that? >> there is a racist bigoted part of the united states. the republican primary electorate is 80/20 on our side on these anti-muslim comments. >> what do people see in him? he's a minority, an african-american. >> i don't get it. he's a devout christian and -- >> you're saying there's a racist element out there. he is a black man. >> he a black man and there's been republican support for other black candidates, herman cain the last time. i think muslims are the new target for this kind of racism. >> muslim is the new black. governor mike huckabee said this about president obama as he welcomed the pope. watch. >> i'm less concerned about what faith a person has. i'm more concerned about the
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authenticity of their faith and how that plays now the their policies. i'm also concerned about a guy who believes he's a christian and pretends to be and says he is but then does things that makes it very difficult for people to practice their christian faith. >> this is another form of bigotry. this is homophobia. this is an encoded way of saying we don't like obama because he supports a supreme court decision that a person of faith like kim davis violated and we should therefore support people who break the law of the land. that's what that's about. it's a dog whistle about that. >> i thought there was a separation of church and state that you put the constitution above what you believe that your personal faith may be and you don't question someone else's face. >> that's exactly right. and also if you have a government job as kim davis did and you don't follow the law, you can quit the job. nothing forcing you to keep that
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job. >> will trump be the nominee? >> probably not but we can't rule it out. >> all right. interesting campaign season. thanks frank rich, "new york times" -- new york magazine. i say that all the time. >> coming up, donald trump blasting hillary clinton today as what he calls the original birther. wait until you hear what she tells me about that. plus, the man? charge of keeping the pope safe. new york police commissioner william bratton on what he is looking out for. >> it's a long list of nut jobs basically, crazy people. and the concern is that some of them have the capability to carry out a threat. just like eddie, the first step to reaching your retirement goals is to visualize them. then, let the principal help you get there. join us as we celebrate eddie's retirement, and start planning your own.
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donald trump repeating his claim today that hillary clinton was the original birther, questioning whether barack obama was born in the united states back when she ran against the president back in 2008. >> she was the original birther. she's the one that started that whole thing. hillary is a birther. by the way, don't switch your
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votes to hillary, please. >> today on the tom joyner morning show on the radio, i asked mrs. clinton about it. >> with donald trump and with ben carson over and over again saying these things about muslims, about the president's birth place, this week people have been saying on air here and -- on cnn and i've been reporting it here that you were the person behind the whole birther thing, and that you were the -- senator at the time, president-elect, actually confronted but that. did you or your campaign start the whole birther thing? did you have a confrontation with the president? >> no. that is so ludicrous, don. honestly, i believe -- first of all, it totally untrue. and secondly, the president and i have never had any kind of confrontation like that. this is such a bad example of
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what's wrong of instantaneous reactions and americans getting all worked up and people feeding prejudice and paranoia like d m donald trump. all of us have to stand against it. i have been blamed for nearly everything. that was a new one to me. but i'll just keep going and talking about what i want to do to get incomes rising and making college affordable and making all of the positive changes that we have to be worried about. >> lanny davis, white house special council and contributor to the hill. what's the truth? >> this is akin to a he said/she said situation. hillary clinton said she didn't say it and her deer tractors say she did. it's likely we'll never know the
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full truth. in the presidential race, there was bit are bad blood between the clinton and obama campaigns. >> the co-chair, who happens to be the senator of senator jeanne shaheen also wondered if obama had once sold drugs. prior to the comment, a volunteer had to step down from the clinton campaign after the coordinator sent an e-mail saying obama was a muslim. then there was a photo of obama in clothing worn by muslims that appeared on the "drudge report" in february of 2008. that was attributed to clinton campaign sources. the clinton campaign denied being a source of the photograph and it was never determined that the campaign was the source it have. clinton did no favors to herself when she was asked during a "60
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minutes" interview in 2008 if she thought senator obama was a muslim. >> you don't believe senator obama is a muslim? >> of course not. i take senator obama at his word that he's a muslim. are you? >> said you take him at his word. you don't believe he's a muslim? >> no, no, there's nothing to base that on as far as i know. >> those four words, "as far as i know," caused many people to suggest that hillary clinton was leaving the door open on whether senator obama was a muslim. we can't say if it was an orchestrated effort by her campaign or by hillary clinton herself. hillary clinton denied it today and her campaign has always denied it. >> every single fact check that
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i have said and there have been a number, have said there's no evidence to say that hillary clinton or her campaign have anything to do with the birther rumor. and the rumors go back even before clinton ran for president. >> and they go way, way back when he first ran for state senate. but really the question on the table and what donald trump was trying to say today was he was trying to connect hillary clinton herself to spreading that rumor in '07 and '08 in her white house campaign. we do know some of her supporters did try to spread that rumor but that doesn't mean she was behind it or that she orchestrated it in any way. >> charles, my question to you is why does he say at the end of his comments today that hillary clinton -- donald trump was the original birther and doesn't switch your votes for her. does birtherism translate into votes? >> obviously that's what he's certainly implying. but i think the key thing that mark just said is that if you have a he said/she said sort of
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dispute going on here, which is sounds like we do, you don't want to get into that with donald trump because he will -- >> i don't think it is a he said/she said. if there was any concrete evidence that hillary clinton had something to do with it, someone would have produced it by now and nothing has been produced that shows that hillary clinton officially had anything to do with it. >> well, all of it is somewhat moot, i think, because donald trump himself has never made any apologies about being a birther and getting behind that whole movement in years past and he's never sort of shied away from that. that may be a great strike against him in a lot of people's minds but i think a lot of people sort of give him credit or give him a wide bit of latitude on that, both because high sort of has been a very effective showman and entertainer, who does things to get a lot of attention. he's very good at it. and he doesn't back away from
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things. he says stupid things sometimes or he says ins inpartfully and doesn't back down from it. so i think that he gets some great for that. >> lanny, go ahead. >> it's not he said/she said. it's false. the source goes back to a book what reggie love wrote. that's where the source of this comes from. if you read what he wrote, he said that hillary clinton apologized for somebody in new hampshire saying something about his book and she apologized. then senator obama, according to reggie love, confronted her with, quote, rumors, rumors, that people in her campaign were spreading this muslim thing and she got very angry. now she has definitively denied she ever did.
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there's no evidence of that. we're talking about the master of the big lie, donald trump, against republicans. after he lies and attacks republicans and then retreats, he continues to lie again. now he's using the big lie against hillary clinton and i only hope, i only hope that the republicans are foolish enough to take a man who only knows venom and prejudice and sexism and actually racism, what he said about mexicans and i gra s immigrants, i only hope the republicans nominate him because this country will never vote for anyone like him. >> the polls show that hillary clinton is still firmly in the lead over gerny sanders. >> it's a critical component if joe biden against in that can seriously impact hillary clinton's race. i think she's making it very
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well known she's got the money that she's needs and is building up the endorsements she needs to stay in the lead. just putting her feelers out there, joe biden might be getting the message to stay out. but, again, joe biden is saying the fact that we have the fbi investigation, the e-mail story keeps popping up and he's looking at it saying i'm still in that 20% range, right? what happens if i do get in? can i stir things up. but he's got to make a decision before that cnn debate in late october. >> thank you, everyone. i appreciate you joining me for the panel. you'll be back. you'll be back. thank you very much. we'll see you in a second. the pope wading into american politics with his first address at the white house today and then meeting with two more members of the obama family. first pets beau and sonny. no kidding. plaque psoriasis... ...isn't it time to let the... ...real you shine... ...through?
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which makes us rebels with one cause. your health. pope francis wading right into american issues, speaking with thousands today.
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okay, panel, let's talk about this. merced mercedes, to you first -- to charles, i should say. the pope right away brought up immigration, saying he is the son of an immigrant family, who has built america. is that a gentle rebuke to ongoing debate over immigration, particularly in the gop race? >> i think without any doubt, don, the pope very purposely has designed -- intended to do a lot of this to insert himself into some of the politics going on here now. but what i was most struck about today, i don't know if you watched the mass, it was an absolutely magical day in washington. there were thousands and thousands of people that flowed out there. and it was really quite a stunning and spectacular thing to watch. and it was easy to sort of forget that there were around the edges a lot of political disagreements going on that had people not being so loving
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towards one another. but it was a very nice scene. >> lanny, the pope also took on climate change today. the right is already upset about that, among other positions this pope takes. are you surprised he was so political on day one? >> you know, i hate to even respond to your question but, don, i always do on your show. i'm not surprised that people will take this incredibly apolitical, inspirational person, i'm of the jewish faith, i've seen many popes, i've admired all of them. but this man is so inspiring but to judge him for saying what he feels in the political arena is just to do an injustice. his positions on income disparity, on social justice, he's a man of the people, is so inspiring that it's far beyond political reaction. all i can say is he inspires me greatly. i don't care if he's a liberal or conservative.
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he's great, great man and he uplifts the planet -- >> but even josh earnest today said the pope was aware of the people watching and of the platform today to talk about these issues, lanny. >> of course he's aware, but he's speaking from the soul. this is a man whose soul inspires all of us and i don't think it ought to be viewed in my opinion, don, as a political statement when he talks about climate chang, income disparity and immigration. he's talking from the heart, not talking about political positions and he's also allowing for differences of opinion, even within himself own church. he's just an amazing man. >> mercedes, president obama thanked the pope for his support on our new beginning with cuba. >> what was so shocking was the fact that the pope spoke on the south lawn of the white house about religious liberties, yet did not address the issues in cuba, did not meet with the cuba
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dissidents who are fighting for freedom and are repressed and fighting for human rights under the regime of fidel castro. that is a missed opportunity and very disappointing for a cuban community here in the united states. again, it's very unfortunate. to talk about the diplomatic relations with cuba and avoid really addressing the suppression at that time cube a -- cuban freedom fighters were expelled and not able to attend the mass, very disappointing. >> jeb bush was at the mass. he tweeted, "we are incredibly blessed to celebrate mass at pontiff and so many fellow americans today." usually politicians only benefit from talking about their faith. in this case why is it that
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people are -- so many seem to be against the pope. happy throb but seem to be against him politically. >> jeb bush not only put out that tweet, don, he also put out a video explaining his faith. the video wasn't geared explaining how he became a catholic, it was a play for voters of faith in the republican presidential primary. i think a lot has been made about what role the pope is going to play in this presidential race, both in the presidential primary and onward to the general election. i think in the moment, some people think it's going to have some kind of effect. i think when we get to november, it's not going to matter. it's going to be the voters here in the united states who think whether the democratic nominee or republican nominee is the best to carry the flag. >> what about when the pope addresses congress? how do you think he'll be received tomorrow? >> he'll be received politely. we already know that several
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members of congress are very unhappy with his position certainly on climate change. and they have said they will not attend. but by and large, i think it will be a polite response we'll see in just a few hours and tomorrow morning. however, you know, listen, it's an historic moment as charles said. the fact that he was here in washington, the fact that he's going to go to new york, the fact he's going to go to philadelphia, that in itself is just really amazing. >> don -- >> don, real fast, if there is ever an emblem of hough politicized and polarized our culture has become that, we're unabe to resist making political critiques of this great spiritual man -- >> he's the most politically correct pope i've seen. >> mercedes, i wanted to interrupt you but i didn't. >> i have to go. >> an inspiring man should not be judged -- >> i appreciate it. new york's getting ready for the
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pope's first visit to the city. we're going to ask the city's police commissioner what he's doing to keep the pontiff safe. [meow mix jingle slowly anright on cue.cks] [cat meows] ♪meow, meow, meow, meow... it's more than just a meal, it's meow mix mealtime. with great taste and 100% complete nutrition, it's the only one cats ask for by name. still not sure whether to stay or go on that business trip? ♪ should i stay or should i go well this fall stay with choice hotels two times and earn a free night.
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pope francis arrives here in new york tomorrow for the second leg of his visit to the united states. commercialer, thank you f -- co thank you for joining us. "while most events will be limited access, large crowds congregating outside event locations and using public transportation can be attractive targets and even if the pope will be well protected, these crowds may be vulnerable to a group of individual seeking to capitalize on the high level of attention that the city will be receiving." this pope loves to stop to see the people. does this make it harder for the
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nypd is it. >> not necessarily. the comment you made earlier about the large crowds, well, all the focus is certainly on the protection of the pope himself and the many other dignitaries he'll be interacting with. there's also the concern of trying to create an incident among the crowd, the boston marathon, it want to go after the runners, if you will, but the crowd. so in addition to protecting the pope, we'll be protecting the crowds also. >> reporter: so his inpredictability helps because . >> right. and in the case of new york, all of his event, everybody close to him has been already screened. even if he moves spontaneously over toward the crowd, that crowd has been screened in terms of for weapons and -- >> what about his schedule being
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public? does that add to -- >> yes and no. the idea there is we want to get the people who are coming to view him, to get them in early so that -- there's no reason to not have it public. >> there's a list of people who have expressed support for attacking the pope. isis, lone wolf attacks, al qaeda, italian mafia, right wing extremist, white supremacists, extreme christian activists. how concerning is that list? >> well, it's a list of nut jobs. isis has shown remarkable ability to inspire people, engage in action, lone wolf type of action so we treat all of this very seriously, we watch it
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and monitor it and the whole role of security is to event, certainly prepared to respond if you were to have an incident but it is all about taking information, making intelligence out of it and with that intelligence focusing your security forces to prevent something from happening. >> i understand there's already a team watching the pope in washington, d.c. >> that's correct. we have several officers from our intelligence bureau that are down there embedded with the washington d.c. police. they have been constantly reporting back to us throughout the day. a lot of what your viewers are seeing they're reporting on but reporting on from behind the scenes in terms of glitches, movement, delays. he's been remarkably pretty much close to schedule throughout the day. pretty ambitious schedule with more to come. >> he's got a busy day here on friday. he's going to visit the u.n., go to the world trade center site, go up to a school in harlem, through central park for a papal
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motorcade, down to the garden for a mass. up said he has extra guardian angels for the visit. how much manpower are we talking about? >> for the event on friday, we'll have over 7,000 officers actually engaged in pope and u.n.-related events. all the attention is on theope that we have already started to receive some of the 170 world leaders that be in to the u.n., the pope will be addressing the u.n. and the leaders will be in a one square mile area at one time. >> is the city ready for it? >> we do it all the time. >> you have pictures on your twitter account that has some of the officers at st. patrick's
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cathedral today. this must be of special significance to a lot of your officers. >> our primary role is the security. to ensure that everybody who attends has a good time, a joy us time, a celebratory time. but also our officers i think are fully cognizant of how special this is and they're privileged to be a part of it, no matter what the assignment, whether it's crowd control, traffic control. at the cathedral this morning, i spent a little time with the cardinal. he was busy with his last-minute preparations. he's really looking forward to seeing the refurbished cathedral, one of the most cathedrals in the world. it's my first time in since taking all the scaffolding down and it is absolutely beautiful. it going to make a wonderful setting for the liturgy. >> you mentioned having this many high-profile names and dignitaries, this is full
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capacity for you. >> yes. in the middle of it is central park, we're going to have a hundred thousand people with beyonce and other entertainers were world leaders attending that event and we also have a horse show in the middle of central park at the same time. >> i was going to say can we throw a circus in at the same time? >> and we'll get our usual couple hundred thousand people in enjoying the beautiful weather happily. >> good luck in the next couple days. >> and in washington today, the pope talked about the hot button issue of immigration and embraced a 5-year-old girl who handed him a letter expressing concern about her parents who are undocumented immigrants. that's next. so you're a small business expert from at&t? yeah, give me a problem and i've got the solution. well, we have 30 years of customer records. our cloud can keep them safe and accessible anywhere. my drivers don't have time to fill out forms. tablets. keep it all digital. we're looking to double our deliveries. our fleet apps will find the fastest route.
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it's time. lower your blood sugar with invokana®. imagine loving your numbers. there's only one invokana®. ask your doctor about it by name. we're talking about the pope's historic trip to the u.s. it's good to speak to both of you gentlemen. did you get any sleep at all? >> a little bit. >> not much, don. >> you were at the white house
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at 5:00 a.m., up at 3:00 bishop? >> yeah. >> when pope francis spoke about traditional values, you were the first openly gay bishop. >> the roman catholic church is a pretty ship chip to turn around, even if the captain wants to do it. we have to be patient. i believe he is encouraging, compassionate and inclusive response to the gay and lesbian, bisexual and transsexual people within his own church and within
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the world. >> let's talk about that. there was controversy at the white house about those who were invited to the white house, some question about whether that was appropriate. what did you think of that? >> well, i suspect the pope was not involved in that and i'm not even sure the vatican was. there are a lot of people who fear the changes that this pope may be behind and are trying, i think, to undermine him in some ways. it's hard to think with a wonderful, wonderful man with that an -- that we have here that there will be forces working behind the changes that he wants to bring. he'll be trying to balance that compassion with looking at the teaching of the church and asking the question at least is this anything that we want to evolve on? >> i heard you this morning
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speaking with our anderson cooper saying one gay bishop in 50,000 people that you didn't think the pope would take offense to that. we saw the adoring crowds this morning in washington, we saw 59-year-old, sophia cruz, called over by the pope and she gave him a letter asking that her parents and family not be deported. how important is immigration to the pope? he mentioned it today. >> it is. when he began his address at the white house, he said, i, too, am the son of immigrants. it set the whole tone for what he was about to say. this nation of immigrants, he said. i think you'll see this a lot tomorrow as well when he speaks but certainly it's been an issue for him from the very beginning of his papacy, people without a
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homeland saying remember, you were once strangers in a foreign land, quoting scripture and calling for compassion for those without a homeland. >> were you surprised, i think many were, that he took on the issues of sex abuse in the catholic church, calling it a crime, really what it is. how did -- how do you think the pope did? how do you think that went over when he was speaking to these bishops today? >> well, it struck me that it was like a father talking to his sons. he was supportive and encouraging but also asking them to do better. some took umbrage that he said the bishops had courage in the face of sex abuse, even though he said you've helped the victims, were supporting in the healing but some said why would you say the bishops had courage when some of them did so little? i think that the pope's point is that a lot has been done in the church in the united states with regard to this issue. there is a zero tolerance
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program right now. anyone suspected credibly is removed from ministry. so i think he was being encouraging and saying yet we have further to go. >> i only have 30 seconds left. you can tell me, both of you, first to you, bishop robinson, tom he's going to speak in front of congress. what will you be watching for? >> well, amongst the clergy we have a saying that our job is to show compassion for the afflicted and to afflict the comfortable -- to comfort the afflicted and afflict the comfortable. tomorrow i look for him to perhaps afflict those of us who are comfortable. no one will like that but we need to hear it. >> father beck? >> i would say immigration again, climate change again and certainly the excesses of capitalism and how it affects the poor in our world. >> great talk. thank you, gentlemen. now get some sleep. >> thank you, don. >> thank you. >> we'll be right back. 't have . tylenol® 8hr arthritis pain has two layers of pain relief.
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that is it for us tonight. i'll see you right back here tomorrow night. "ac360" starts right now. good evening. from capital hill, what a day, what a night. tomorrow from where i'm standing, pope francis will make history again. he'll address lawmakers, a first for the entire papacy as well. you can see by the look in people's eyes, a very warm greeting after what was a very long day. we've just gotten a great pair of photos from the white house photographer, pete souza, one a smiling president and a smiling pope shaking hands this morning in the oval office. the second a smiling pope and two portuguese water

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